Updated: Wed Sep. 03 2008 17:09:12

CTV.ca News Staff

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion made his own campaign-style announcement Wednesday, offering hundreds of millions for farmers, fishermen and truckers as an additional part of his contentious 'Green Shift' plan.

He said the plan will "reconcile the economy with the environment."

Dion said that a Liberal government would set aside $400 million over four years in emission-reduction credits for the primary industries under his environmental plan.

He also announced that Liberals would add a $250 million "green farms funds" for research aimed at cutting fuel consumption.

"This makes the green shift even better and stronger," Dion told the Liberal caucus as it met for its summer retreat in Winnipeg.

The tweaks to the 'Green Shift' came after months of heavy Conservative criticisms and fears from the primary industries that they would bear the brunt of the cost of a carbon tax.

The environmental strategy is expected to be the centrepiece of the Liberal election campaign.

"Canadians need a government that will be guided by science and fact, not narrow-minded ideology," Dion said.

Dion also announced that Bob Friesen, the former leader of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, would be running for the Liberals.

CTV parliamentary correspondent Graham Richardson said on CTV Newsnet Wednesday that "clearly (Dion) was getting a strong pushback (on the plan), especially in rural parts of Canada."

With Prime Minister Stephen Harper expected to call an election by the end of the week for Oct. 14, the Liberals were clearly in election mode, with Dion trying out some new soundbites on the stump.

"Tory times are always tough times," Dion said referring to Canada's economic slowdown.

He also pulled a page out of Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama's election playbook and tried to link Stephen Harper's policies to U.S. President George Bush.

Richardson noted that Harper has pulled a similar trick on Dion calling him, "to the left of Pierre Trudeau" last week.

Understanding the 'Green' plan

On Tuesday, Secretary of State for Multiculturalism Jason Kenney said even Liberal MPs don't fully understand Dion's Green Shift carbon tax plan.

But Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal MP for Willowdale, Ont., downplayed the notion that the plan is complicated and many Liberals don't even fully understand it.

"It's not complex. It's in fact really simple," she told CTV's Canada AM from the Liberal caucus meeting in Winnipeg.

"What's complex about saying we're going to reduce taxes on the things we want more of -- income, innovation, investment in green technologies, and shift that onto pollution? It's a simple concept."

Hall Findlay said the economy and the environment will be the two key issues of the election, and Dion's Green Shift plan allows the party to tackle both at once.

Another Liberal MP, Dominic LeBlanc, told Canada AM the plan doesn't represent a tax increase; rather, it shifts taxation, putting a heavier burden on polluters.

"It's a big personal income tax cut for low- and middle-income people. It's a program also to deal with issues like poverty. But at the end of the day it's a very effective program to deal with climate change," LeBlanc said.

Comments are now closed for this story

Webb
The Green shift plan appears to be the new "sin" tax of the 21st century. Our politicians are again using behaviour modification through taxation.

Joy
I still see nothing to ease the burden on the most vulnerable, those whose income is so low they do not pay income tax. The rich will get income tax cuts, the lowest income people will pay carbon tax and unless they are subsidized, they will not be able to afford to heat their homes or buy gas. This will include all the unemployed, many seniors, and some very low income working people. I knew of a 60 yr. old man with a sick wife working full time for $6.00 an hour in the Maritimes.

DCR-Toronto
Dion is done. He would say and do anything to try and make his tax look better. The Liberals are going to be #3 if they don't start moving back to the centre instead of this swing to the far left. When will they get it through their heads that Canadians don't want to be taxed to death and have their money spent on massive social programs that just eat money to no end? The 70's and 80's are over. Wake up Liberals!

Shane Mahoney
So is Dion secretly on the Conservative payroll? Like come on....if you wish to assure an election loss then read my lips "yes more taxes". He is literally falling on his symbolic political sword on this one. Does Mr. Dion realize the unequal impact this will have upon more isolated/remote regions of Canada. Places that rely upon long haul transportation will see good costs increase dramatically as a result as direct and indirect ripples from a new fuel tax. Here in Newfoundland we would love to hand that centralist, lying, carpet bagger Harper an election loss. But even so the liberals seem to be determined to hand Harper a win. So sad as Harper has demonstrated by his renege on the Atlantic formalization and set date election act that rule of law and contracts mean nothing to this american style republican. so what a wonderful choice...vote liberal and lose even more of our meager earnings or vote conserative for a party whose signed promises mean NOTHING and will implement policies so out of step with what canadians want. MY GOD....NDP is looking sweet about right now.

Crazy Jim
Here's a simple overlooked question:

If Dion doesn't want an election why does he have a great big sweeping tax platform anyway?

Ian Ottawa
This sounds like the Chretien playbook all over again. I will get rid of the GST if elected... The Liberals will say anything and do nothing and there are still people that know this but will vote with there loyalties from the past. The Liberal past is of lies and thefts and if they really sit back and look at the Liberal record they will see the option to vote Conservative whether they like it or not.

Dorothy Wilson
I don't understand how this plan is supposed to work, and I'm not a stupid person. Surely there is a better, simpler way to cut emissions than by taxing them. Could we not put our energy into building windmills and installing solar panels instead of going through all the paperwork necessary to establish a new and uneccesary tax? Why do the Liberals try to solve every problem by taxing it?

Marcel
Mr. Dion will be announcing more changes to his plan. At least he is willing to do something about the environment. Mr. Harper, Mr. Baird, Mr. Kenney, Mrs. Ambrose and company have done absolutely nothing on this file since February 6, 2006. By the way I find it ironic that Mr. Kenney, the Secretary of State for Multicularism was spokesman for the government yesterday. Where is Minister Baird hiding. Thank you

David
What's the point of a carbon tax if you provide relief to all the big consumers?

Al Wood
And so the plan changes and changes and changes. Continuous changes to make the plan palatable to Canadians and his own caucus. Maybe they will actaully add in some environmental targets and remediation plans? He is calling out the heavy guns to go on TV to try and explain what the plan will do as it changes and changes. This has all the earmarks of political panic.

DRH
The election hasn't even been called yet and Dion is already backpeddling on his Green Shaft. His own party dosen't even understand this tax let alone the die hard voters. Tax is tax and it will never see its way back to the consumer. This is nothing more than a desparate attempt to refill the depleted liberal coffers. Remember this people: A liberal vote will definately mean less money in your pocket. Beware of the Fiberal smokescreen?

C & E
All b.s. From Dion. The poorest Canadians also heat there homes in the winter,drive cars that are older and less eficient. Dion is mudding the water to make the liberal shaft look like something that it isn't.

Chris
My question still remains this: How does this plan actually address lowering CO2 levels? Just because companies are paying more tax doesn't mean they'll suddenly change. They'll do what they've done in the past, pass the extra cost onto the conusmers, and blame it on the government. Anyone who thinks this will not happen is living in a pipe dream. What are the actual targets for CO2 reduction under the Green Shift? So far, I haven't seen anything at all.

Even though the conservatvies don't really have a "green" plan, I'd rather take no plan, over a plan that will end up costing me more in extra costs for everything compared to the 5 dollars a month I'll save on income tax.

Mike
Wow, I would have never thought I'd ever see the day when the NDP really really have a good shot at grabing control of the house. Think about it, with Dion and his "Green Shift Tax Grab" and Harper just being a typical conservative, and going back on election promises to try and grab a majority or at the very least another minority, which I believe is just based on the fact that they knew how angry people would be over Dion's planned tax grab is just plain wrong. Well Jack nows your chance to come out of this with at least a minority government. I'd be willing to give the NDP a chance given the record of the other two parties.

Tom Hawley
I am not a big supporter of Dion.However, if this new tax will be distributed back to the people great.If is not but it forces people and corporations to be more environmently friendly thus helping our children and future generations what is the problem?
Conservatives use fear about our economy.What is an economy without a healthy planet?
People and businesses have always changed with the times and this will be no different!
A few extra dollars to have a healthier planet is a small price to pay for a large return.

Chris
If the Liberals were really concerned about greenhouse gases why arn't they putting more pressure on the biggest produceres of it China, India and Pakastan although we do leave a carbon footprint they are leaving a carbon creator. Liberals are looking for votes and doing it poorly I might add.

Jay
I can barely afford to survive as is, we don't go anywhere because of gas prices, am not looking forward to the winter costs. Fuel is already highly taxed, part of the high prices, for the first time ever, I may change my vote from Liberal to NDP as a result of this. The Liberals have foolishly sunk themselves with more taxes on an already burdened population. I suppose all those in small towns and cities could just leave them to move to big cities with rapid transit systems as will be told to access it. I guess this is the end of small town Canada.

Matt
Canadians are already doing things on their own to reduce their carbon footprint...look around, the number of gas guzzlers on the road has nearly vanished as people sold them off in favour of smaller cars (as an example). Dion didn't do that....CANADIANS did it on their own, and now he wants to tax us on top of that?
I cannot afford ANOTHER tax and I will NOT support Dion because of it. Go Harper

Matt
Does anyone seriously think a carbon tax is going to do anything to lessen carbon emissions, much less affect climate change? Personally I think global warming is a huge scam, but regardless there are better ways to deal with this issue than a complete overhaul of our tax system. I'll be voting for Harper again.

Collin
This massive tax grab should be the end of the liberals for a while. Acutally I'm kind of glad that the Green Shaft is the backbone of the liberal platform. Surely Canadians will see this as the tax grab it really is and vote Dion out. Then maybe the liberals can come up with a better leader. Then Canadians will have a choice at the polls.

Stevie
Come on people! Look at this!!!!!!

The Green Plan will tax energy producers. They'll pass that off to US (the consumer) by jacking up energy costs!!! The Liberals say they'll reduce income tax so we have more money to compensate for those higher costs. Unfortunately the reduction will ultimately be far less than the increase of those energy costs!

PLEASE DON'T VOTE LIBERAL!!!!! YOU'LL GET SCREWED ROYALY!!!!

Eric
Didn't the Flaherty and Conservatives blast the Ontario Gov't for throwing money at the auto sector???...Thats a legit question for all you pro-Tory propagandists out there. The plant is already closed....Give the manufacturers tax incentives for reinvestment in ONtario, DON'T throw money at them...They'll take it and run...Remember Oshawa Truck Plant scenario anyone...We gave them hundreds of millions to help out. GM took the money and are now shutting it down. Maybe the feds should buy out Ford or Chrysler and nationalise the management opps. Give supply and assembly contracts to Canadian Companies and bring back manufacturing to this country.

Marc Debeau
Dion is done, lets give the conservatives the majority they deserve. Dion cant lead this country and nor can the NDP.

PrairieDog
"(Dion) says it may be a tough pill to swallow now but with the adjustments that he is introducing (Wednesday) he suggests (the plan) will be palatable, marketable and voter-friendly for when the campaign call actually comes,"

Dion is changing his plan a few days before an election is called? Then says everything will be just peachy. This guy gets better all the time. Three months crossing the country saying how wonderful it is. Then a couple Liberal MP's (Thibealt and Gooddale), say they are going to lose their seats over this plan...and poof...we can fix it in 5 days. I am not sure how stupid these guys think the public is, but they are completely out of touch. The people running the Liberal Party now are worse than Martin and Chetien for underestimating the public. Do they really think that this is going to make their plan more marketable??? People are sick of the years of over taxation and social programs engineered to "help" the public, but in reality are creating a "nanny state". The Liberal Party wants to FORCE us to do as they say. They have an attitude of "we know best". It is time for Canada to send a very clear message to the Liberals and reduce them to a few seats. Maybe then they will see that they are not "Liberals" at all. They are a bunch of socialistic wolves in sheeps clothing. Say anything to gain power. We now have a PM who is actually working for Canada. Harper has done more and worked harder and actually knows what being a Prime Minister is supposed to be. Even the posters here are starting to worry. The attack ads that the Conservatives put out (and the Libs said were dirty) will be nothing compared to the hyprcritical left when they start to make Harper look like a monster. Libs get more dirty than the Conservatives. Too late lefties. The writing is on the wall and Harper will get his majority!

Robin the Hood
I would be against a tax on carbon if people actually did modify their behavior. Unfortunately, for the most part, the only thing consumers understand is the pain at the pump and they will likely not drive less and drive smaller vehicles, or take mass transit unless it hits them in the pocketbook. Climate change and the need to reduce our CO2 footprint has not translated into taking the issue seriously in this country in the absence of financial pressure - even for the sake of their own children and grandchildren who inherit this planet. Hence I support a carbon tax as the only viable means to get people to reduce energy use and waste. To vote Conservative on the basis that you refuse to pay a reasonable price on carbon is an act of immorality and selfishness. Its time to get serious about the environment and what future generations end up with!
Chief Seattle once quoted... "The Land is not inherited from our parents but borrowed from our children".

Frank Buchan
The Green Shift was, I heard, the right thing to do, regardless. I suppose it isn't the right thing until politically acceptable? Pathetic.

Mike
I graduated from the University of Ottawa (with a degree in Political Science) this time last year. I currently work my ass off just to break even. I'm deep in student debt and if Dion brought in his carbon tax, I might as well declare bankruptcy.

Dion
Come on people, do you think it's easy to make priorities?

Thomas Wong
Tom,

Green shift is to target the Quebec vote. With the Liberal strong base in Ontario, Liberal only needs a higher percentage of seats in Quebec to form a minority government. The fine tuning of the Green Shift is a smoke screen to show Liberals are inclusive.

Donna M
I'm curious, has anyone read the platform? Though I am still undecided on whether I will support it, SOMETHING must be done for the environment. Those who don't understand how it will work, please read the document. As for corporate taxes being increased and the questions of 'why would companies decrease emissions if their taxes are increased' try to follow this: their taxes are first DECREASED, then they are taxed for emissions. Those with less emissions may actually pay less in taxes, those who cannot/do not curb their emissions may pay more. Is this a great plan? I don't know. Do I trust the Liberals? Again, I don't know. At least I've read the document to see what it is about instead of bashing it without any knowledge but hearsay.

Dale Wilson
The only thing the green shift will do is shift green from my wallet to the liberals to throw away on unproductive, partisan projects that in the end will benefit no one. We've got to do something people, we're all going to get hurt and hurt bad by this...the liberals don't understand it (and are having to make changes on the fly here)and there will be a HUGE administrative burden...and we know how the liberals handle those...remember the gun registry that ran out of control for 4 freaking years???

Robin the Hood
Btw, the act of giving millions $ to the auto industry - be it in Windsor or anywhere else - reveals how dishonest the Harper Govt is and what they really think of the intelligence of the voters. It goes against their earlier conviction not to throw good money after bad and is purely timed for the election. This after bad mouthing Ontario for its corporate taxes which, if you informed yourselves, are still lower than in most of the US. This is a cynical misappropriation of tax payers money which the Car companies will happily take and LEAVE with! The high Canadian dollar is what is driving manufacturing out of this country to the benefit of oil and resource based economies out West. For the lack of a better word to vote for the Conservatives at this point would be frankly quite moronic.

A Proud Food Producer
It is blatantly obvious, this Liberal scheme has no substance and Dion is winging it as he goes along. Help the farmers adapt to the unavoidable?? The unavoidable is his scam will destroy the farmers and farming industry. NO MORE TAXES!!!

Rick in NB
Dion must be going to announce a lot of amendments to get the electorate to swallow the Shift.
The shame is that it might of palatable by the time Oct. 9th 2009. Now its a rushed effort.

Roadrobber
I spoke to my father who has voted Liberal all his life and he is livid at Dion for his carbon taxation scheme. He says he's not voting Liberal this time. He is a pensioner on a fixed income and he doesn't know how he will end up paying his electrical and heating bills if Dion is elected and brings the tax into effect. I think a lot of people are thinking this way.

johns
Give the name back to its rightful owner intellectual property theft is just that.

no choices
I'm in British Columbia and I can tell you CARBON TAXES DON'T WORK!
Do you realise how many communities do not have bus service, have inclement weather unsuitable for biking and walking most months, and how many people work shifts when busses just don't run? If there were viable alternatives people would use them. Stop punishing people without giving them alternatives!

Greg in the Hammer
So now Mr Dion has flip flopped AGAIN. When he released the Green Shift he said he would not change one comma. Now he is going to subsidize Farmers, Truckers and Fishermen. It won't belong before as in Europe, he will have to admit that he will have to subsidize utility costs like hydro and home heating oil as well because most people won't be able to afford it, after the "polluters" like utility and oil companies jack the price of their commodity through the roof.

THIS GUY JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

The arrogance of the Liberals still amazes me. Their time in opposition has not taught them anything. "We know whats best for you so let us worry about it", seems to be their attitude.

This is nothing more than a wealth transfer from Canadians to the government coffer to fund Liberal pet projects.

Bring on the election.

bruce nicolson
The liberals are obsessed with this carbon tax thing!Canada is 2 per cent of the worlds problem.I want a solution that takes that into account.the liberal plan amounts to self flaggelation for all of us so they can show the world our commitment.This is dangerous for our economy!No amount of tweaking is going to fix this.A big government solution is not the answer.Business will see,and have already seen the benefits of reducing greenhouse gases.They will seize the opportunity if govt.doesn,t come in with a big hammer approach.
Liberals,show some confidence in our business community for heavens sake!

Done like Dinner
Kudos to poster Wilson for the following comment:

Can yah believe that it took Dion 18 months as enviro minister,
plus a 10 month leadership campaign,
plus 20 months as Lib leader,
that's four (4) years
to arrive at ONE policy....and now we are told it's back in the 'construction phase'.

This guy is 3 times as bad as Dithers. Hell, Dithers is looking pretty good right about now.

Maybe the CONs need to learn to read?
To all the CONS and their bobblehead minions: all you're saying when you write "I don't understand this plan", is really just "I can't read at a kindergarten level". Harper only wants you to bury your heads in the sand and believe that complete inaction will make the elephant in the room go away. I seem to recall another self-professed group of superior intellects ignoring the obvious changes on their planet, which ultimately resulted in their destruction. Yes, those were the naive people of Kripton. See the similarities? That means Superman's parent's were Liberals, and the rest of the bone heads were CONs (General Zod was probably NDP, trying to split the left vote so the CONS could remain in power) Really, it doesn't surprise me that conservative MPs can't understand it, but at least some of you web-spammers should be able to display some common sense. The plan is simple, and the ends to which it is a means is unavoidable. Reducing greenhouse gas emissions and dependence on fossil fuels MUST be done, and the longer we wait, the harder it will be.

Jaid
Green shift taxes those who pollute. Makes sense.

But...when companies always like to post record profits, these types of costs will be passed down to consumers (after all consumers don't really get publicity in general).

In the end, it's pay and pollute for companies and for citizens it's pay and lose.

JPL
Mike, that is not at all true. As much as I disagree with carbon taxes and think they do absolutely nothing to reduce pollution, I do not think it is fair to make such a sweeping statement that you will be bankrupt if there is a carbon tax. You will likely not even notice it being a single person living (I assume) in Ottawa.

Norman from Armstrong BC
Eric
Get rid of those blasted money grubbing unions and perhaps some manufacturing jobs will return to Canada.

They are the ones that drove wages up and now are crying because John Deere is going to Mexico.

Beancounter
Great... a carbon tax on top of the carbon tax we already pay in BC... No thanks!

I prefer Liberal party, but not with Dion and not with their carbon tax (unless they ditch the BC carbon tax, then fine). NDP is not an option so I guess it looks like another vote for Conservatives (unfortunately).

bennji
I really don't see why so many people have such an issue with this plan.

When are we going to open our eyes and realize that we are ruining our environment.

I am more than willing to pay a little extra so that future generations have a safe clean environment to grow up in.

Craig
What happened to when Stephane Dion said he would not change the plan "by one comma"? Oh right, he did what all Liberals do and looked at the polls.

True leadership does not mean governing by whatever is popular at the time.

As for people saying the government has no environment strategy, please do some research. The Conservative plan involves hard targets, caps and trading, and investment in technology.

It is much more reasonable than a simple tax transfer designed to buy votes from poor people.

Mike
How convenient. A few months ago, Dion unveils, with much attention, his new "Green Shift," which was apparently so well researched that he didn't think it would be a problem to use an unrelated company's name for the plan. This lengthy, published plan, which no one really understands (apparently including members of the Liberal caucus), was announced with big headlines, news reports, etc.

NOW, it seems that this report was unveiled despite being thoroughly incomplete. Oh, you're just making adjustments? Oh, well, okay then. I don't suppose it has anything to do with the general public seeing right through this nonsense that Dion has come up with, and recognizing that it's a thoroughly BAD idea - could it?

Kurt
"Another Liberal MP, Dominic LeBlanc, told Canada AM the plan doesn't represent a tax increase; rather, it shifts taxation, putting a heavier burden on polluters."

"It's a big personal income tax cut for low- and middle-income people. It's a program also to deal with issues like poverty. But at the end of the day it's a very effective program to deal with climate change," LeBlanc said. "

So Dominic, it won't represent a tax increase, but part of the tax collected will be used to implement new social programs such as fighting poverty? Wouldn't that be a tax increase?

kman
I don't really understand the need for a carbon tax. The amount of C02 greenhouse gas Canadians are contributing to the environment is a fraction of a fraction of a percent, when also accounting for natural C02 sources, and water vapour (largest greenhouse gas). Even if we reduce by 50% as a country, we are only reducing a fraction of a fraction of the overall contribution globally. Which by the way Co2, may not be the major contributor to global warming anyway. In fact over the past 10 years there has been a global cooling trend globally, even while C02 levels continually increased... Instead of punishing Canadians for using a cheap, economical and abundant fuel sources, why not set the financials and economics in place to allow alternate energy sources and technologies to grow a little easier, in a free market society? When the time comes that alternate sources of energy are economical, guess what, big oil and other companies will jump on board, simply because as we all know, they want to continue to make more and more money. And because we will have more money in our pockets, (instead of less due to cash grab... I mean Carbon Tax), we can make our own decision on what source of energy we choose to use. Some of us will be able to pay a bit more for the alternate, if we have more $$ kept for ourselves and decide it is important to us.

larry
Yes, Martha Hall Finlay it is simple to understand the "Carbon Tax" it is a tax. Mr. Dion would tax the manufacturers, farmers, fishers, etc. and the tax would trickle down to the little guy once more. Oh, but your going to give income tax breaks to those who earn enough to file for them. But what about that senior couple or that disabled person who are on a fixed income. The price of fuel goes up because of world markets and the liberals also get their share in the "Carbon Tax". Of course all government employees will get the tax break when they file their income tax.
A tax is a tax is a tax.
You can't call it anything else, and every senior (unless they are teachers), and low income people will pay that tax.

Joe Flacco
The planet is not ours the destroy. It was lended to us by our kids. We have to give it back in good shape, agree with climate change or not. We say we can't pay for it all. I don't buy it, we are one of the richest country in the world, we live in a way that 2/3 of the world don't even dream to live like in future generation. If cons wouldn't be around, maybe everyone would get a share of the wealth instead of rich getting richer and workers paying more. I don't want the governement to mismanage my money, but making poluter pay seems right. Conservatives are looking at now, their pockets now, their kids , and only their kids, the rest of us can just get what's left and that's it. Is it the equal opportunity system we believe in. Environment issues must be addressed, and it is not free, that's for the greater good. A little less luxury for us poor canadians, I am so sad....NDP does look good now.

Jason Daniel Baker
In other words Dion is watering his plan down. If people thought he had trouble explaining it in the first place wait until he has to explain the changes. Then no one will understand it which may be a good thing for the Liberals.

Agent001
The Liberals can say whatever they want at this stage. I have just two words for Canadians:

Remember GST?

Pip
So, "senior Liberals continue to say on the record that the plan isn't finished".

Does that mean that some tinkering will be done to the plan for the election, that it still won't be fixed on election day, and that, should Dion win, he will go back to the original?

People don't like buying a pig in a poke, particularly one that will cost them big time. It is fine for academics and politicians, whose income is protected, to dream up fine pie-in-the-sky schemes; in the meantime, how do the unemployed, working poor and seniors on fixed incomes - who live in the real world - afford to get by when even more of their income is taken in the form of increased costs for everything that has to be transported? Is there a better way to destroy an already shaky economy? I doubt it.

If Dion hangs his political future on a one-plank platform, he will not be leader much longer. If people want to vote left, they will choose Layton before Dion.

.

Rob O
Remember, Quebec is mostly powered by HYDRO - so they have no major carbon tax for there use, it's the rest of the country that will carry the burden once again so the Lib's can get the vote's out of Quebec again.

Martin
Dion just handed Harper a majority with this foolish plan. The carbon tax is hurting the Liberals in BC. Right now, there are no commercially viable alternatives to gasoline/diesel engines and consumers really have no other alternative right now than to purchase carbon based fuels, so what kind of fool would introduce this plan? At least Dion will have to resign when the Conservatives get their majority.

ED
The "little tweak" will be the part where they forget to reduce the income tax, after introducing the carbon tax.

Remember the GST promise?

Doug
This plan is making more sense the more I learn about it. I like the fine tuning. It shows the fexibility that is needed. I wonder with all the pre-election goodies from the Tories if they will soon announce an enviromental plan?

Joe
I agree with Shane Mahoney. Mr. Dion, Stop this nonsense now! STOP! STOP! STOP!

Rick in NB
Greg in the Hammer:
You are acting like the politicians you complain about. Nobody knows if the one comma statment was made. It was a unconfirmed insider who said this. I know i read the artical.
This "do or say" anything to prove a point just doesn't work on the informed poster. Nice try anyway.

Bee
More marketable? So let's try to package something that most people will suffer from with a pretty pink bow.

A carbon tax will do nothing to benefit the environment but will benefit the government.

Instead of punishing people for something over which they have little control, why not provide incentives to use realistic alternatives (if you ever get around to forcing companies to provide such alternates).

Ivan
The Liberal are at least presenting a plan. The Conservatives would rather fiddle as the polar ice caps melt.

Roger - Not fooled
I paid about 12,000 in Federal tax last year - Under his plan I might get a whopping $120 tax break (1%). Somehow I doubt the tax on gas, electricity generation, all goods that require shipping etc etc, will be held to $120 on my budget - I see me paying WAY more than what they claim they are goin to give back to me in tax breaks.

Its a lie - and a deception - Don't follow the Green Shaft!!

KP in GP
Flippity-Floppity. People don't like it so they're changing it already. When will Liberals come to understand that the reason Canada loves Harper is that he picks something and sticks with it, even if it doesn't please everyone.

MuskyBuck
The Conservatives are busy bashing a poorly thought out plan by the Liberals....AS THEY'RE REOPENING AN ENGINE PLANT IN WINDSOR.

I'd love to see both these parties OUT!!!

I do know you posters have a memory, c'mon people...If it wasn't the Liberals stealing before it was the Conservatives raping resources and spending on themselves like mad.


If no one here has considered the Green Party, just have a look at their main website to see what their platform is.

Acroyear
I live in rural Nova Scotia and drive 120 klicks round trip to my job each day. I drive a good car, I keep in good condition and gets good gas mileage. I just bought a new super high-efficiency furnace to off set the cost of oil this winter and to use as little of it as possible. It even has an air scrubber on it to lower its emissions. I do my part for the environment as much as I can, thank you very much.

Dion's plan would make every cost in my life go up... period! Food would cost more to truck, business would pay more for heating & shipping & electricity, so their costs would go up, and do you think they'll just swallow that?

Green Shift might not be so bad in the major urban areas where you have the option of mass transit, but here in the "outlands"... this will hurt like hell.

BTW, in case some people here who think this is a good idea didn't notice, we live in one of the COLDEST countries on earth in winter. Heating costs are an enormous consideration. Also, where the hell do you think your food comes from? They don't bus it into the city or use bicycles.

Dion's plan would cost all of us a ton... and for folks like me in the rural areas? To the point where I would either have to give up my job, or my house... something would have to give.

We on the East Coast keep hearing how we're some sort of welfare sector and don't contribute.

With plans like this, how the hell can we? Whatever work we do find, some idiot politician finds someway to strangle off!

I have always been a staunch Liberal, and I will NOT vote for the current Conservative party so I think I'll just show up on election day and write "Bozo the Clown" on my ballet in crayon.

BrynOttawa
This country and indeed the planet is facing a major environmental crisis. If we need to tax those who are polluting, so be it. At least Dion is trying to take into account the various considerations involved with fixing this massive problem. By the way, why are we giving so much credence to Jason Kenney? He is the Minister of Multiculturalism, where is the Minister of the Environment on this?

Elizabeth
Hey folks - better to suffer now than later - we are running out of oil. We have a carbon tax in BC and doing what we can to adjust to the inevitable. Our government has the courage to do something about climate change. We are doing what European countries have done for years. Now Australia is following. 850 US mayors have signed on to Kyoto. There will be an inevitable change in government in the US and Harper will be alone on his lack of a plan on climate change. He doesn't even believe in it-that's how far off base his party is.

John Moors
The timing to introduce this tax is all wrong, as well it is not a revenue neutral tax. Until its proven that it is revnue neutral I will not support it. Revenue neutral means the tax is not collected. You do not collect a carbon tax case in point Denmark.

Acroyear
If you heat with anything that has carbon emissions in it (lets see....just what other viable choices are there in a country that has 7 to 8 months of fall & winter weather?) then your going to see a significant increase in costs.

I agree we need to have less impact on our environment.

Forcing low income families and seniors out of their homes, or to be cold all winter isn't the way to go about it... not in my books.

It's just another example of the federal parties in this country having no idea how the average Canadian lives...and I mean ALL of them.

KPK
If we applied the Green Shift to tobacco taxes it would go like this...Tax the hell out of cigarettes and give the money back to smokers via lower income tax. Would this be more effective to deter smoking than NOT giving the money back at all? Of course not! So what is the Liberals' real agenda here? The only way you can reduce is GHG is reduce Canadians' disposable income so they travel less and conserve more. I certainly don't expect the Liberals to give back ANY of the tax they collect.

John in Edmonton
The posts I am reading here are very frustrating.

I actually read up on the Green Shift. It is clear, it is straightforward. It is not a significant tax under any circumstances, considering fuel has gone up over 50% in the last two years anyway and Dion is talking about several percent - and nothing for gasoline!

You won't even notice it, and I'm not even going to try and convince you of why you should be happy to pay it, but if you're polluting, you should pony up to society for the cost you are inflicting.

The benefit to low-income earners come in the form of refundable tax credits. The plan is revenue neutral -guaranteed.

It is a really good plan - for all Canadians and the planet, and it will work, but you have to read it.

Please, please, people, before you take cheap shots at Dion and rant about what you think is 'just another Liberal tax', take the trouble to read up on it...

MuskyBuck
One more thing...I am a manufacturer and producer here in Canada.

I can tell all of you that any taxation on us gets shifted down to you.

Just as the GST is raised or lowered, you the end consumer are the one paying for it.

One poster here pointed out that it will the US that pays for this taxation shift, which is true but not the whole story as almost every industry in Canada pollutes in some manner.

Up until the Liberal Ad Scandal, I was always a Liberal, frankly because Conservatives are just too scary in their backwards thinking to join that repugnant party.

I can tell you with honesty that this is not worth supporting or even arguing about.

Jeff
@Kman

I don't know where you're getting your information from - the planet has not been experiencing a cooling trend for the last ten years- there was a brief period of cooling in the 70's because of increases in water vapour, which reflected light back into space. Since then, however, the planet has warmed, according to the scientists who study this field. Check out the melting of huge ice sheets in the Arctic, which was reported only yesterday. Most scientists now link increased greenhouse gases to increases in hurricane activity. The clock is ticking for climate change deniers. Please provide some sources if you're making these kinds of contentious claims.

By the way, the anti-global warming film, Global Warming Swindle, has just been declared a fraud by the British courts. I suspect a lot of people have formed their opinions based on that film, and they need to realize they've been duped. The film was financed by a very right-wing mining tycoon, and makes 96 errors in fact and attribution. This was reported in the Guardian newspaper on July 22nd, based on a British court case.

The other point goes to the question of why Canada should bother with a carbon tax or any measures to reduce global warming. It's true to say that we contribute only a fraction of CO2, and that America, China and India have to be brought on board if we are to reduce the trillions of dollars in damage this will cause over the next century. But we can't go to the Chinese and demand that they become non-emitters of CO2 if we haven't cleaned up our own act. Curbing our emissions is mostly symbolic, but it is a necessary step if we are to have any credibility on the world stage.

Further, the carbon tax has been used, with some success, in Denmark and Sweden. Info on the web generally supports this move, so those saying it's untried haven't done the research yet.

Goober
Have all you Conservatives found out about the money that the low income person will have per year? Why be one sided and not even read the Dion idea!! If it wasn't so embarassing to the Conservatives they would not be giving the Liberals all the publicity for it! Conservative plan...do NOTHING until dictator BULLY says do this!

Max
Don't fall for this carbon tax. It was pushed down our throats in B.C. by our Liberal Government. Our prices here have sky rocketed on everything and we still have winter to deal with. Many families are struggling to make ends meet now and this government does not care. All they did was give themselves a 43% raise. Talk about a cash grab...

Jim M of Vancouver
Well, although the Liberal plan may appear a bit scary because it will change a lot of things, the thing that's interesting is that the Conservatives have made no mention of thier plan to cut/reduce emissions. At the very least one party is focusing on what is actually going on with the environment.

Steve the Pundit
Most people are not in a position to make (or afford) changes to their lifestyle that would help them avoid being "Green Shifted"; can't afford that new furnace or replacement windows that would reduce energy (and thus carbon) usage. Seniors and fixed income people are trapped more so, especially considering many of these people pay little to no income tax that would be the supposed "benefit" of a carbon tax. Where is their "contingency relief"?

This smacks of pandering and/or desperation; really, who would still vote in support of this hare-brained plan?

mike
I am all for making improvements to our environmental situation but this green shift is not the way to go. There is no reason what so ever to be trying to tax half our population or industries, while provide relief to another half. That is no proper balance and it will mess up the economy. Even if this plan is tax neutral (though I highly doubt it is) all segments of our economy need to thrive, we cannot afford to punish certain sectors of it.

If you want to stop polluters legislate some mandatory targets and initiatives...

RoYo
Enough of your tax increases Mr. Dion. I don't want to pay more to heat my house, drive my car, buy food and pay more for everything else that is made and transported to Canadians. The tax will be passed on to us. Also you say you want to increase the GST back to 7%? Thanks but no thanks.

Andre
Trying to make the Green Shift more marketable...is that what is often referred to as "putting lipstick on a pig"?

Don in BC
Most everyone I know is trying to be more energy efficient and aware do mainly to it's cost. Oil is raising everything and we just learned hydro is going up 15%. We do not need another increase in cost. I don't believe I will come out ahead. When everyone forgets what the tax is fore it will be buried in the price like past taxes for everything else.

The Right Lever to Push: Market
... I am all for eco-friendly practices, but why the mindless tax and spend solution? Here's a new idea: instead of giving money to Ford and Chrysler to reopen plants, buy the plants and manufacture solar panels there, retraining the workers and providing solar power to the grid. That would reduce the cost of solar, and move the economy lever the right way. Subsidize home heating by selling solar panels to Canadians at a discount, then low-income people can power their homes for less.

Instead of bludgeoning us with taxes, be creative about solutions.

Brent
This has got to be the most asinine move possible:
- tax fuel use to discourage it, then
- subsidize heavy users of fuel

The two together amount to a pointless tax-grab at the middle class.

The only way a carbon tax makes sense is if those impacted by it are allowed to fully feel the pain.

Marcus
Greenshift will be 'revenue-neutral' by increasing taxes on energy and lowering income taxes, which somehow will result in energy conservation.

But let's assume for one minute that it works... that the high cost of energy forces us to cut back on consumption. That means much less revenue for the government, right? They will have to get this revenue from somewhere... which means they will have to raise our income taxes back up to cover the shortfall!

kman
Elizabeth wrote...
Hey folks - better to suffer now than later - we are running out of oil.

Guess what, as oil reserves shrink (which in any case they are not) in a free market society, (not an over taxed and government priced controlled one), the price of oil will increase. As a result there will come a time that this resource will become so scarce, and the price will become so high that alternatives will be relatively cheaper. This will happen naturally, with little government influence! At that time people will choose the lower priced alternative. In some cases we already are... we buy smaller cars, hybrids, change in lifestyle, work from home, etc... We don't need government’s help!

Jimmy boy
I thought Dion's Green Shift plan was too perfect to change. Why change it now? Maybe because people don't want to vote for it. So really Dion, is this about the environment, or about getting elected? After all, you never did a thing about the environment when you were the environment minister.

Jeff
Compared to the rest of the world, statistically speaking we are a small contributer to pollution. Somewhere around 2% I believe. Why is it we have a pollitician so set on policing the little that we do cause. What measures does this guy and people like him take to be more "green"? Or is it a case of do as I say, not as I do...

Glenn from the Peg
Here we go ... changes even before it is implemented.

What happens in year 2 or or 4 when the tax under this plan is increased and the revenue neutral part disappears?

Robert
It would be wise to wait and read the plan carefully to determine if it will have benefit to environenmental damage caused by greedy govt's and business before condemming the plan. Any plan is better that John Baird's plan which is do nothing except to upset the rest of the planet.

Mike S.
Yes, it's a tax. People seem to get hung up on that part and ignore the "Shift" part, which notes that a different tax (income) will be significantly reduced. It's a balance, and one that should encourage people and businesses to adopt greener technologies and lifestyles. (The horror!)

Yes, Canada's low in population, but we're among the worst in the world on carbon emissions per capita. Tax-shifting has proven effective in many countries that have adopted it (Norway, Sweden, Finland, etc.) - and their economies have also grown despite this.

However, it doesn't surprise me that people have a knee-jerk reaction to anything that even remotely suggests higher taxes... it's sad.

The environment is something we *have* to deal with, and this is at least a far more pro-active approach than what the Conservatives have offered (which amounts to, "oh, we'll trust people to reduce emissions... in 40 years...").

Gail
Hey, Elizabeth, I don't want to suffer. I don't want Canadians to suffer. If this environmental recipe of Dion's has to keep having ingredients added, ie. more government money to sweeten the pot, then it's a recipe for disaster period. There are those that are followers, and then there are those who challenge. I choose to challenge.

Mance
I'd be willing to bet the majority of Cons here complaining about a tax or anything of that nature are all over 40, upset over their generation. Feeding on the lies of the conservatives. Guess what, most of you are the reason the planet's ecology is so messed up to begin with. Liberals are, although unpopular with the elder voters have a great chance here to give the under 25's something to vote on and fight for. Tax or no Tax, telling Mr set in life his tax's are going up slightly to help his children and he gets made at paying more money. Tell a young liberal his taxs are going up to help his future children....point, Dion. I predict you will see a record breaking amount of young voters out this election. And guess, Id bet they see more of them in liberal caucus then a conservative on.

Peace

Derek M. in Vancouver
I am confused with these comments.. How is lowering income tax, and shifting taxes to the polluters considered "Increasing Taxes"??

Who doesn't want their income tax lowered substantially? Why not read the details of the plan, rather than being lazy and just listening to the Conservative Spin Doctors on this issue?

Shaun
Maybe the CONs need to learn to read?
Thanks comic book guy for the comparison between politics and superman.

Scott
It's a tax grab. The cost of everything will go up and that will be passed on to consumers. When the consumers pay more for each item they will also pay more GST to the Feds. Dion and company fail to mention that in their little rallies. Revenue neutral? Yep. I'll pay a boatload more tax because I live in the country and have to commute to work, for groceries and everything else I need just so Latte sipping city people can feel better about themselves and pay less tax.

With no real effect on the environment.

I don't understand
Can somebody explain to me how this tax would be neutral and reduce CO2? If the goal is to bring in the exact same revenue by taxing polluters, what happens if it actually works and there is less pollution to tax? Wouldn't taxes have to be raised again to remain revenue neutral?

John Smith
@ Chris - I agree with you, 100%. I know that Canada is not "Holier than Thou" when it comes to a "carbon footprint," but we're definitely not in the same category as China, Thailand, Pakistan, India, etc... Anyone who has been to any of these countries will know that there are ZERO regulations in place, let alone a "Green Shift" plan. Furthermore, if it was your post (same name), I agree with the fact that the companies (persons?) affected will continue what they have always done; there will no change in the pollution levels. Only added surcharges and fees to the end-user (aka "us") to cover the additional expense...

Wake Up Call
Yes Marcel, Dion is willing to Tax us into submission, without quantifying or qualifying any emission reduction targets. Harper, Baird and Ambrose have done far more in the last two and a half years than Dion did while Environment Minister in a Majority government. You may have your blinders on, but we have a far better environmental reduction plan in place now than we did 10 years after the Liberals signed Kyoto. Besides where was this 1 Billion Dollar Slush fund mentioned in the green book? Wasn't all the money supposed to come back in tax cuts? Now, who has the hidden agenda? Liberals will say anything to get voted in, but as history shows, with a majority they will do what ever they can to appease Ontario and Quebec to stay in power.
I agree Tom that we need to reduce emissions, Dion's plan does not establish any reductions. The current plan does call for reductions in emissions AND many OTHER kinds of POLUTION. The Liberals are fixated on carbon dioxide. And have NO other environmental PLAN. I truly do want a cleaner and healthier environment for future generations, do you?...

Mark
Considering we humans are the greatest source of GHG emissions, by virtue of breathing, I would suggest for the future of the planet, all those in favour of it, go find the nearest cliff and following the lemmings over it. That will do a lot to reduce GHG emissions.

John A
At least Dion and the Liberals are TRYING to do something about the environment.

Conservatives? They are too much in bed with those who are damaging the environment. Otherwise they would have at least done something by now [instead of MAYBE an election promise that will never see the light of day].

Josh W
So, in about 70 comments "Green Party" was mentioned once... I find that a little surprising. The 'Green Shift' plan is a water-down and not particularily well thought-out plan that the Greens have had for quite some time in their platform. The difference is the greens also have a lot of other policies that work in unison with it to change how we measure the economy's success and better live within our means while maintaining a high standard of living. One example in the GP's plan is that though they'd tax carbon, they'd also change the income tax system and include a basic supplementary income system. This would mean every Canadian would receive a basic income and eliminate welfare, pension, etc. and combining it into a universal system. This would subsequently offset the negative impacts on low-income persons caused by the carbon tax...

Erwin
'Green Shift' is about shifting money 'green backs' from group to another. It has nothing to do with the environment. It will shift money from those who have to drive to those who have alternatives ie. from rural and small town Canada to the big cities. Interestingly, the Liberals get virtually all their votes in the big 3 cities in Canada.

mark
Oh and the biggest polluters?

That would be you, me and you over there. We humans are the biggest polluters - if you breath, take part in economic activity (like going to work), you are all committing the unpardonable sin of destroying the world. Why just today when I started my car, the Markham Ice SHelf on Ellsemere Island broke off. I feel really bad about that. Tomorrow, I'll ride my bike.

Gerhardt
the hysteria is amazing...how do you think we've been providing universal healthcare for example. Money doesn't grow on trees. We have a responsibility to fight global warming to the utmost. Canada is one of the major contributors to the problem and now when the Liberals actually come up with a concrete plan, the consumers are screaming. Please wake up. If we rely on the Harper folks we'll just go deeper into the hole. Dion may not be charismatic but he's intelligent and most importantly understands what it means to be an ADULT. The Liberals are comprised of both Right and Left and is the ONLY party that tries to bridge those differences. It requires negotiation, communication and risk-taking. You can't run federal programs and initiatives without taxing! Harper's gov't is loud, but that's all. He doesn't negotiate and most of all hasn't understood that Canadians want both the market and social federal programs and initiatives.

Marcel
To Bryn Ottawa, I agree 100% with your comments. The PMO most likely decided that Minister Baird better remain quiet because he may put his foot in his mouth. Thank you

Robert
So can someone tell me what the Conservative plan is and how much it's going to cost me?

Thanks!

Dan
To the person who said they are willing to pay more for their kids to grow up in a healthy environment, do you not realize that if we shut down ALL industry in this country for a year, China and India will make up for it in a matter of weeks? And if you think they are going to jump on the green train anytime soon, then you are out of touch with reality.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
I DON'T HAVE A HORSE TO PULL MY PLOUGH!!!!

"(It) will help farmers to be less dependent on fossil fuels and to be more energy efficient, and then to be more competitive," he said.

MadAsHell
"It's not complex. It's in fact really simple," Said Hall Findlay! You got that right. We (Ordinary Simple Canadians) pay MORE TAX to the Libs. And we all believe in Climate Change but most of us realize that we, Canadians in particular, are NOT contributing to it, it really is the Earth doing what it does naturally. The actual change is COOLING folks, why do people not inform themselves properly? As for Harper.... He's the best of a bad bunch right now. In fact he is looking better every day especially when the other "Leaders", and I use that term loosely, open their mouths!

Julie
Do any of these party leaders actually listen to what the public has to say? Canadians are already paying outrageous taxes compared to other countries. If the taxes were used to help improve our health care system, I'd say go for it. This whole Green thing is just confusing. So if we pay a carbon tax our air will magically improve? Please Mr. Dion, most Canadians have a hard time paying their hydro, gas, food, phone bills let alone adding another tax. Harper is not better. Look at what he did to our lumber industry. I say lets get new leaders that will actually listen to the voters voice.

Paul Vancouver Island
Let's get off fossil fuels, the sooner the better, and make the world a cleaner place for all species to live.

At least Dion is trying his best to work on a solution for the global warming issue rather than the do nothing attitude of the Harper Government.

Everything costs in our world, if we want a better world for our kids.

Oil companies are making outrageous profits at all of our expense, they can afford to pay a small tax at source.

Alberta Believer
"So is Dion secretly on the Conservative payroll?"

He's gotta be because what he is doing is so stupid its hard to believe that the leader of a major political party who currently has the government held to a minority would so hand said government a majority with an election looming.

Perhaps Dion maybe banking on the fact that despite he having no real ideas, the country currently is so divided that he'll still maintain his position as minority parliament opposition leader in that he'll get votes by default based on blind or visciously partisan voting.

Based on his performance thus far, Dion doesn't even deserve to come in second place at the end of this and his lieutenants also deserve to go down in flames for not openly revolting against this disaster of a leader.

"Vote for me, I'll tax you more than the other guys..." I mean c'mon, envornmentalist or not, anti-conservative or not, who with a brain would vote for such an inept leader with a bad plan to boot?

Rob
I hope CTV places this.
Dominic LeBlanc indicated that it is polluters that would get taxed. Well Me LeBlanc I am middle class have to drive to work so by driving to work it makes me a polluter. The middle class suffers the most when this tax schemes come into place. Shame on Dion!!!. Give Harper the majority he deserves so clown Dion goes back to his circus

Chad
There is no such thing as a revenue neutral tax. Who is going to pay all associated costs with administration? Tax payers are, and we will never get that money back, unless administration will consist of volunteers (please join me in laughing). So to say that what goes in will equally come out is impossible.

not a sinner
Carbon tax offset by reductions in other taxes = neutrality. This is what the liberals state.
The govt. does not get anymore money. The public does not actually gain anything tax wise.
If I am a business forced to pay because I pollute. Where am i going to get the extra cash to buy or create new technologies.
If any govt. is interested in going green. They should give hefty tax incentives to buy and develop new green techonology or practices.
We have been taxing bad behaviour (Sin Taxes) for decades. People just adapt and find other ways to still be sinful.

Liberals are desparate
Dion is desparate!

Now that Canadians have expressed resistance to his outrageous plan he is prepared to change it. Goes to show you how ill thought out it was to begin with.

Run people run....

Gerry
Wow, a minority government letting the market define our agendas? our Canadian future? Markets are just that, they're markets...we are the people with consciousness able to make wise and intelligent decisions based on information, analysis, research...and a minority gov't lets the market control what we want? This is shocking and irresponsible. The destruction of healthcare will be next if the tories are not stopped now. Our beautiful world is floundering. We don't need a fear-inciting, toxic media-based cement block as government, we need risk, intelligence, wisdom, generosity, international prosperity and dialogue...don't listen to Harper propaganda and misinformation. Don't support lying. He's a man who knows what he's doing...the problem is he doesn't believe in sharing that with the majority of Canadians who didn't vote for him or his party.

AJ
The changes are just a marketing ploy to get the gullible to vote for Carbon Tax Kyoto Dion. If he does win, he will do whatever he wants. Dion once referred to a Conservative tax cut as "another useless tax cut". Dion and the Liberals can't be trusted. His idea of the "right thing" and mine are different. I want to keep my money in my wallet, he wants it in his.

Scott
We need higher taxes and increase in the GST! The fuel tax is great!! We all need to pay more. Support Liberals and Dion!

Jorja
Anyone who thinks this green shaft will lower emmissions, or be revenue neutral is delusional. The carbon tax has been tried in various parts of Europe, and the end result was a joke, carbon still went up, the cost of living skyrocketed, and many manufacturing jobs were lost. The people who can least afford it are going to suffer. Dion is starting to panic, and changing the plan as he goes. Truckers, farmers, and fishermen aren't the only ones who will be affected, many people need fuel to drive for or to their work. Then there's the whole carbon caused global warming thing, it's a scam. It's not fact, or science, it's politics. Everyone should go to taxpayer.com, and do some serious reading.

George W.
Besides the tax implications of Dion's plan, I think that it is important to also understand the impact that such a tax shift will have on the Canadian economy. The transitional costs would have to be tremendous.

Consider the impact that other transformative changes, positive and negative, had on sectors, industries and regions:

- free trade
- the metric system
- the National Energy Program
- the GST

The difference, in this case, is that there will be virtually no positives since there is no significant sector or industry which is sufficiently large to offset the losses which would be felt throughout our largely carbon dependent infrastructure.

I fear that the tax impacts on individual citizens will pale in comparison to the transitional costs borne by the Canadian economy.

TimeForDictatorHarperToRetire
Marcus,

Let's say things do work and we curb the amount of pollution, don't you think that would have an effect on a lot of other things (say like $ needed by the govt. to fund healthcare issues such as asthma/lung disease directly related to air quality or assistance due to severe weather damage)? Then wouldn't that mean the govt. wouldn't need to make up for a no longer existent shortfall?

And to those who seem to be upset that Dion made some tweaks to a plan that is not law/set in stone - what would you rather have, a PM that actually listens to the feedback he gets from Canadians or one that tries to silence critics with lawsuits and orders members to defy parliamentary inquiries for suspected wrong-doing?

Linda in Vancouver
I think the Liberals blew it when they elected Dion as their leader.He really was not the first choice of many,but won by sort of splitting the vote when the debate was about moving to the right,or going even farther to the left.He was a bit of a compromise for a party that's afraid to really stand for anything.
I think if they had elected John Manley they would be ahead today.He was a bit controversial within the party because of the socialist element that have taken over the Liberals.But he did have the economic good sense,and a commitment to our need to improve our military.He was inclined to decent environmental policy,but also recognized we could not devastate our economy to get there.
To bad.If someone other than a socialist was leading that party,I'd still be voting for Liberals.If things keep going this way,I'm likely to be forced to vote for Mr.Harper for quite some time.

Blue in NB
Absolutely outrageous.....the working poor and the lower end of the middle class would seriously suffer under this plan. Tax Tax Tax....we'll be left with nothing by the time we pay out on our emissions with this crazy tax! Try creating less emissions in the dead of a Maritime winter.....or using your car less if you live in a rural area and are ill......just a snippet of the endless situations that prove this would be a step backward for the most vulnerable in this country. Keep Canada moving strong.....VOTE Conservative!

Andrew
Those Liberals will say and do just about anything just to get back into power. Let's see if Canadians are easily fooled this time around.

Vic
Just wondering if $1B contingency fund for truckers, farmers and fishers could be seen as an unfair subsidy by other NAFTA members?

Wayne
So the Shifty tax is shifting as we speak? Somehow I do not find this surprising. When are the Liberals going to get their act together or are we going to have to go to an election? Watch them lose and then they'll get a different leader.

Colin
Speaking as a former Liberal I am very concerned about our system as my party (former party) has turned a corner and rather than trying to appeal to the center they are going even more left! If the LPC isn't careful they will start to look more and more like a Trudeau type of gov't. I am voting NDP as I think Layton is doing a better job as an oppostion leader than Dion.

Tim
Joy said:
"I still see nothing to ease the burden on the most vulnerable, those whose income is so low they do not pay income tax."

The libs announced CREDITS (it's not a refund since they don't pay income taxes) to help the MOST vulnerable.

I agree they need help the most.

Sheila
Sure, the Liberals promise to take tax from us and then at the end of the year give it back. The only problem is that every time they do this they never give it all back. How anyone can take Dion seriously is beyond me as this is the guy who has sat on his hands for a new canadian record 44 confidence motions. Now there is something you can take to the voters!

KJ
Well, Joe Clark lost the election of 1979 over the proposed 18 cent per Imperial gallon (4 cents per litre) gasoline tax increase. I would say it's pay back time for the Liberals based on the politics of the pump.

Foxer
If the plan doesn't hurt people, how will it force them to reduce their carbon output? And if it doesn't force them to do so, what is the point in the first place?

We're being had here folks. You can't have a penalty to reduce carbon that actually leaves people the same or better. It doesn't work that way.

Roadrobber
If Ontarians think they're losing manufacturing jobs to the USA and Mexico now, wait until the carbon tax scheme gets implemented. This will only increase the costs of doing business in Ontario and you will see a mass exodus of manufacturing businesses. For sure this will reduce GHG, although not in the way intended, and then while Ontarians are enjoying being on welfare at least they can say they saved the planet from warming.

sdgreen
Flip Flop Dion does it again by using proposed stolen tax to 'buy' votes!

No matter how one calculates a 'carbon tax', neutrality in revenues is not included. BC Liberal Gordon Campbell's carbon tax is as punitive as Dion's...

We live in a cold country, we must drive. Dion has proposed zero alternatives except tax gouging the public.

Rick in NB
Wake up! There is no NHL Party running this year.

JD in Alberta
My question is this. How much GHG does Canada as a country produce? And if this plan is introduced, will it save the world? What we need is a PM like Harper who is willing to stand up tho the major polluters like India, and China, and force them to adhere to the rules that every other country is supposed to follow.I don't care if they are "developing nations", they've had centuries to become modernized nations, it's not a CANADIAN problem if they haven't by now.
So for those who say the GREEN SHAFT is good for Canada, try and convince me how taxing the hell out of Canadian business will offset the pollution world wide. The more we reduce, the more other countries will crank it up.

Maxiom
I just wish they would stop lumping carbon dioxide in with their definition of pollution. Carbon Dioxide is an essential TRACE gas that is necessary for life to exist on this planet.

This carbon tax scheme will not reduce one mole of carbon dioxide or other GHGs from the atmosphere. It is simply a tax grab.

K Morant
"Dion will announce that part of the $1 billion contingency fund in his plan..."

Translation: a Liberal slush fund will be used for whatever buys the most votes.

"it shifts taxation, putting a heavier burden on polluters."

Maybe true, but the consumer always pays. Polluters will have to increase prices to consumers to make up for the shortfall.

In short, we all get shafted, shifted, whatever.

Vince m
Don't tell me that the Europeans have green taxes on gasoline and it helps the environment.

If you read up on it they are using about 3% more gasoline per year - the taxes are just an unavoidable cost of doing business.

Alan
Tax Neutral? Like the BC carbon tax that is tax neutral, to whom? I, as a non-BC resident go there for a trip/holiday/business and get no neutrality in my tax. I just pay a bunch more for fuel and commodities. So now I try not to go there if I can avoid it. No tax is neutral; it hurts many, benefits a few and fattens government pockets.

I am for lowering pollution without turning a great country into a poor country but there are better ways than passing money around in the form of carbon credits... I think I will vote for Dion, NOT.

James in New Brunswick
The Green Shift plan seems to have as its objective the lowering of CO2 emissions by removing money from the pockets of Canadians so that they can't afford to purchase anything that isn't an absolute necessity of life! Great idea!

I for one would like to see ANY PARTY come up with a system of tax credits for the purchase and installation of alternative energy systems.
I would also like to see a true accounting of what our electricity costs taxpayers in the form of subsidies and incentives to public utilities. We should not be building more nuclear powerplants so that we can sell power to the US while we still have fossil fuel fired plants in operation!

Marc
I don't understand.
Can somebody explain to me how this tax would be neutral and reduce CO2?

Let me give it a try. By paying more for pollution via a carbon tax, that money is washed of any GHGs and returned to taxpayers to spend as clean money on whaever they would have spent it on to begin with. The fact that the cleansing transaction is completed is sufficient to please Al Gore and David Suzuki. Hope that helps in figuring out what the green shift is all about.

Al from Calgary
Here's a newsflash for Marcel and everyone else who says that at least Dion has a plan. Harper's non plan will cut as many emissons as Dion's Green Shift -zero. The only difference is we keep our money in our pockets.

Alberta Resident
Paul Vancouver Island - You better start building those nuclear powered ferries and process your sewage if you want to join this blog without being a hypocrite.

Roger - I am Enviro-Friendly.
- I currently drive a fuel efficient car that I keep maintained (no choice but to commute 65 km each way).
- My next car will be a hybrid at worst or if I can hold on long enough, an electric or hydrogen car if available.
- My family of four typically has 3 recycle boxes out on the curb, one tall box of wet waste for recycling and a single - not always full - bag of garbage.
- I choose to turn the A/C temp up on truly hot days and make sure we are careful with lights and other electronic gear.
- we keep our house heated to 18C in Winter which some consider cold but we have come to feel comfortable (we can supliment in winter with a wood stove if necessary).
- We use cloth bags for grocery shopping to reduce plastic consumption.
- I am seriously considering adding solar cells to our house for clean production but at the moment they're out of range financially.


All these things we choose to do - and guess what?? - I am a CONSERVATIVE voter and will vote that way again. This sham that the extreme left likes to paint Conservatives as some resource hogging group is false. Our family makes its own decisions to be careful and minimize our footprint. We don't need government putting yet more taxes on us to try to do what we are already moving towards. More tax on me will probably kill any chance for us to move up to a cleaner car anytime soon or make further changes we would like to.

Get a grip Canada - A liberal Tax is just that.. a tax that will benefit no one but the Liberal party.

Maxiom
Since when has any government - Liberal or Conservative - ever offset one tax increase with another?

When the GST was implemented it was supposed to fully replace the MST and thus be a tax that was theoreticaly neutral to Canadians...it was supposed to be offset, at least in part, by a decrease in the price of goods. Not one item was reduced in price and many prices went up in addition to the new tax.

Even if Dion did wish to place the majority of the burden onto business, those costs would simply be filtered through to the consumer. For all the talk of balance, there is no way we will be paying less.

MBM
The Dion Green Shift is another scheme to cheat Canadians with paying taxes through the nose again in everything including food. Dion is desperate because he still didn't pay his dept from his nomination campaing. Liberals have no money, they still didn't pay their debt from lost campaing. How many times Dion Flip-flop his Tax Plan. Does anyone understand this man how can he be trusted with Nation Finances when he can't commit to pay off his campaing debts. Mr. Harper & the Conservative Government work very hard to boost relations between Canada/United States. Because before Mr. Harper was Elected, Canada Free Trade with United States was dad under the Liberals. Dion is again insulting the Bush government in National TV. Well, United States is Canada No. one free trade partner, can't do business trowing rocks at business parter. When he talks in National TV I have to put on my ear plugs. He talks like a MAD -MAN & Gives me a headache. To set the tone has to be from the top. He doens't have what takes to be the Prime Minister of our country,"Canada" I'm proud of being Canadian under the Leadership of Mr. Harper. Well,, today is a day of celebration in Windsor, Ontario. Canadian Auto Workers, Fords got 80 million from Rennacan Project of 500 million for five years. That will bring 757 jobs to Windsor & Assex County. Thank you Mr. Harper & the Conservative Government of Canada.

Brian L
The Liberal green shift plan appears more like the"Green Shaft" plan .The result will be :higher costs to industry,the consumers will inevitably have these costs past on to them ,and the Liberals will have more money to reinstate heavy duty pork barrelling with my tax money .There has to be a more fiscaly responsille way to accomplish the greening of the environment

Trudy
Bravo Nova Scotia Premier Rodney MacDonald for standing up for Nova Scotians who DO NOT WANT another tax. He has added a carbon tax calculator to a Tory website to show how much more people might pay on heating oil were a carbon tax to be implemented. According to the Conservatives' online calculator, someone who paid $3,000 for heating oil last year would have to pay an additional $420. Canadians will be taxed on heating fuel, the price of which they have very little control of, then a Liberal government will spend hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars administering this plan, and finally Canadians will get back what is left in a tax break. Some plan. With the Carbon tax plan there is nothing being put into developing renewable resources or new technologies or reducing hydrocabon use by increasing mass transit for example. Nova Scotia is have not province developing it's own eco-friendly energy sources such as wind power and tidal power. It takes time, so please give us the time Mr.Dion.

Barb
I just wanted to say has people ever noticed how the liberals & NDP keep on bashing the Americans I would call this racism I thought that was illegal I hope people remembers the Gst promise by liberals so can't you see this is just a coverup to get elected then pretend it will cost them to much to change the plan. Come on people we have been there once don't let them take you there again

Jim
The conservatives will use legislation whith actural targets for industrial poluters. Liberals would tax everyone with no apparent plans for reduction of emissions. Canada I belive contributes less than one percent of world emissions. By the way the planet has been warming up for 100,000+ years and just as an ice cube melts faster the smaller it gets so to does the polar ice cap. For most of the earths history there were no polar ice caps. The earth currently has the most abundant diversity of speacies in it's history. I wonder if the leftist cavemen blamed the righ wing cavemen when the woolymamoth became extinct and the huge ice sheet that covered north america began to disapear. The fact is we know very little about the natural cycles of the earth. Any real scientist would tell you that we don't realy know for certain how much human activity contributes to global warming. Seems to me that the leftists are the new orwellians, telling us how to think, what to say (politicaly corect). Good old guilt and fear...at least God forgives us.

OPEN Question to Dion or ANyone out THerE
It appears the few supporters of Dions plan seem to think they are the only ones who have read this plan. I have read it. Besides the obvious punitive affect it will have on us and our economy and cost of living without addressing pollution, I would like to ask Mr Dion or anyone else for that matter about this proposed tax which will be applied to virtually all imports. Stop for a minute and consider everything we purchase from foreign countries especially China. All the electronics, computers,cell phones, clothing, and food just to name a few. Things we love to have and things that are necessities. Yes, Dion states there will be a tax and yes it will cost us more but HOW MUCH MORE? How much tax? Will it be 50% or 100% or 5% or what? Dion cannot say because he doesn't know or doesn't want us to know,but he is warning us up front it will be painful.

John-KW
These changes are a welcome sign for me. The plan looks good now, and I was hoping all along that a few changes would be made.

At least the Liberals took some suggestions from what the farmers, fishermen, and truckers were telling them.

TAPGCM
Jason Kenney claims "even Liberal MPs don't fully understand Dion's Green Shift carbon tax plan" then Martha Hall Findlay says "It's not complex. It's in fact really simple," "What's complex about saying we're going to reduce taxes on the things we want more of -- income, innovation, investment in green technologies, and shift that onto pollution? It's a simple concept."

So I guess that means that most Liberal MPs can't figure out a simple concept? Yep, these are the people I want leading the country.

CanadianFirst
Maybe the CONs need to learn to read?

Please go back to your comic books and leave real life to people with intelligence.

Graham Henderson, Prince George, BC
It is only a complicated plan to those who do not want to understand it or read it, and to those who chose to criticize it before even having looked into it.

It is a simple plan, you will start to pay a tax on what you BURN, not as you do now, which is on what you EARN. The Dion Tax Shift has been hailed as a great step in the right direction, and a plan that will put an end to many of our environmental challenges. It has been supported by the likes of Gore, Suzuki, Economic Council of Canada, reputable economists such as David Dodge, and Jaccard to name a few.

Say it with me: The Dion Green Tax Shift is - A plan designed to shift the current tax system, so individuals will pay a tax on what they BURN not what they EARN.

ian
why doesnt dion just come out and say it and get it over with. i will exempt everyone from paying carbon tax that votes for me. I mean even liberals got to be dreading this guy opening his mouth.

Mo
I support Dion's green shift plan because logically it should work to both save the envirnment and not effecting the economy.. Unfortunately most people in Canada only care about money and their own personal lives rather than saving money by stopping the Global warming and helping other survive in the coming years.

Ryan P.
These guys can't be believed. You don't make a policy which Dion described as historic proportions on the eve of an election. Remember the last time the Liberal Party of Canada made some drastic environmental policy with little end results....oh yeah that's right it was called Koyoto. Did the Liberal Party of Canada hire the Palin advertising group from the US Republicans to sell this message? Good Luck Stephane, your party is about to be humiliated.

Lart from Above
I'm surprised at the number of Conservatives who don't recognize simple economic incentives. Tory criticisms of the Green Shift aren't based on facts. They are just trotting out the same economic fear-mongering that has been used for every government initiative since government pensions and health care. The facts are that environmental remediation will save costs and create jobs, and allow the Canadian economy to become more productive and efficient. Two years ago the Conservatives were denying the facts about global warming, but with the Arctic become an open sea, that lie isn't credible anymore, so they are reduced to lying about the costs of preventing a global environmental disaster while ignoring the astronomical costs of doing nothing.

Maybe Canadians want to be lied to, and we may choose the wrong government. Maybe we'll be reduced to having the new American government asking us to adhere to the terms of a treaty that, once upon a time, we were world leaders in creating in the first place.

my take on this
We will always have taxes. Political parties will always exploit our dislike for having to pay taxes. Canadians will be going to the polls shortly and we have two options. Vote conservative and do nothing about the environment or vote liberal and do something about the environment.
Either there is a problem with the environment and you support the liberals or there isn't a problem with the environment and you support the conservatives.
At this time, I will only support one of those political parties.

Dale Wilson
The only change that should be made to this abomination of a plan is to delete it.

toronto voter
living in toronto im already taxed to death and i dont need another reason to get a part time job ontop of my full time job to pay for all this. green shaft is yet again another attempt for libreals to fill there pocket after a stunning blow in 2006. i voted conservative last time and im deffently voting conservative again.

ill take tougher crime laws, lower tax rates, a military to be proud of and a party i can truly believe in over more taxes, more libreal scams to fill pockets and yet again another french leader with nasty broken english.

Dion has shown he is no leader but a fallower. i bet he will ask harper how to goveren canada if dion was ever to win hes that much of a tool.

Liberal spinmeister = Robin the Hood
Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a Canadian value yet those who support this "Green Shift" know well the only shift that will take place is about shifting your money from your pocket into the Liberals pockets them wasted on big spending artsy fartsy give aways - that is the Liberal way.

We taxpayers have tried that game an been screwed once too often.

Say NO to Dions crazy Green Shift and be glad you did.

Rick in NB
Ok i have read every perscription you spin doctors have written. Since this seems to be the menu for today. I have a good spin.
Back in the 1960s, the Federal Goverment was focused on centralization. Moving people from remote areas to common grounds ie: Newfoundland. This tax could do that for the Gaovernment as nobody could afford to travel. See that only took 10 minutes to think up.
There are 2 types of posters on this issue. Those that know we need a detailed plan and those that say don't worry, everything is fine, we will get to it.
I chose be responsible not procrastinate.

Pat
I don't know about you..but seems like the conservatives are paying people to put bad comments about the liberals on ctv because people have been brainwashed with this theory that were better with the conservative. Liberals took us out of debt, better foreign policies and have marked their presence. Charter of Rights, Health Care, Social Reform and UN peacekeeping. And by the way, were back in debt, we got out of debt with the Liberals. And one more thing, MY TAXES WILL BE LOWERED BY THIS PLAN AND THIS WILL START PHASING THE POLLUTERS OUT AND FIND DIFFERENT WAY HOW TO DO BUSINESS, WITCH THEY WILL GET FUNDED BY THE GOVERNEMENT TO HELP THE ENVIRONEMENT... People actualy pay attention to every word these politicians are saying, cause brainwash marketing is the only way the conservatives are here .Actualy pay attention cause you will learn more and have your own personal opinion

Don
There is no point at all in directing anything in these posts to Dion the Buffoon...

This idiot is completely out of touch to anything that remotely is of real concern to the average working Canadian...

As I have stated in previous posts,this clown gets driven in his limo with tinted windows from his tax-payer provided mansion(heated and air cond. by taxpayers)

When was the last time this driveling idiot had to pay out of his own pocket for gas and fuel oil to heat his home and get to work...

But even if he did I suppose when the taxpayer gives you a $230k a year tax free salary plus all your perqs he would hardly be in a bracket where he could understand the struggles the average worker faces...

Hopefully by Decenmber we will have seen the end of this oaf.

Harper ain't perfect,but compared to all the alternatives....

Guy Hebert
I don't understand all this wealth redistribution stuff, but I do know that the Liberals are not usually about giving taxpayer money back to the taxpayer - usually they are busy figuring out schemes to keep it for themselves!

Barry
This Green shaft has the potential to break up the country.
The fuel producing areas will not stand for this ATTACK on their economies.

Barry
No wonder Dion's plan is called the Green "Shift" - it keeps on shifting! Just wait, if yet again a few more negative polls come out about his plan - it'll be shift and shift again! Looks to me like the Liberals have more of a poll-pandering plan rather than anything truely green. Maybe his green shift's real shift will be all the green trees that will be cut down to make paper on which to credit some of that money back to several groups he took it from in the first place. It all sounds rather shifty to me.

Mark F.
The Green Shift attacks me as a rural/small town person here in southern Ontario. I don't have access to public transit, nor do I work in one of the sectors Mr. Dion is going to give a subsidy to, to overcome the negative impacts of his plan. I don't much care for Mr. Harper, but his criticism is right on. It's just a tax grab and another hit at people like me as the economy slows down.

Hope
Why would any rational person believe that taxing any overindulgence resolves any issue?

If I drink, eat, smoke or consume to much gas; how does charging me more for the items reduce my consumption?

It just doesn't work.

Education and practical solutions are the only answer to life style changes.

Charging more for something only makes me pay more, it doesn't break any habits.

Raj
This is right out of a Monty Python sketch, right? First you impose a tax to increase the cost of using oil and then turn around and provide financial support to the groups who use the most oil so they can afford to to continue buying and using the higher priced oil. Brilliant, Stephane!

huong vu
Dion said green tax should be good for economic and less expensive for living.Com on ,tax is a tax.always take from taxpayer.

Listen up.
Please guys, I just turned 18and am working at Wal-Mart to pay for university. Notoriously low for an income, yes - but I need every cent to get by. I read Dion's plan and the Con's are right - it will cost me more. I just can't afford this, I still have 4 more years of university to go.

Beyond being ineffective (if we supposedly don't notice the price hike because of gst rebates (which I won't get because of low-income status) where is the incentive to use less?) NONE Exists! Dion must be crazy - no matter how you look at it it is a tax grab. Please, do me and the 10,000's of students a favour, put your vote elsewhere. We cannot afford this.

KJ
I still really wonder what County in the Land of Dumb were the Liberal back-room startegy boys vacationing in when the 'Green Shift' was being developed ...?

Andrew
In understanding the science of it.... the greenhouse gas that makes by far the most difference (so much so that co2 levels really have no bearing) is water vapour- but how can you tax that. I fully belive in higher efficiency, less waste, etc but all this hogwash from the government about it is just to fill their cronies pockets with more of our hard earned money.

Scott
I'm with Dorothy as not understanding the plan. If they tax carbon, but give me tax breaks so there is no additional financial burdern on my family, where is the incentive to change my consumption of carbon and save the planet? It looks like a shell game to "appear" green, and have something to campain on.

jody
Why would anyone vote liberal with that guy as a leader.He would be a complete digrace to our country.If he becomes pm, Alberta will separate.

Paul
Hey Stephane Dion,

Seems like Gagliano won't let you be proud or all the Liberals. Why does your party not give us back our money, because the Liberals are criminals in political clothing.

To the Liberal party of CANADA give us back our money, you crooks.

Paul, B.C.

Malcolm
Yes that's exactly what we need... a new tax on record high gasoline prices. I'm sure it won't hurt every industry in the country that relies on transporting goods. Oh wait it might.

Steve
I can't believe how many people can form an opipion without knowing the full details of this plan. I know i cant. But what i do know is that our present gov. has made Canada the laughing stock of the world with its present policies in regards to the enviroment.I can only assume he will do anything to protect oil rich Alberta. Where does Harper come from anyway?

rene
I can't believe what I'm reading here. In the future when my children ask me where humanity went wrong and destroyed the environment I'll know exactly what to tell them. People were ignorant! Shame!

BC tax payer
If you place a Carbon Tax on gas, oil, natural gas etc. and then give people an income tax break to offset it, what happens when the Municipality has to pay this, like in B.C. here? I will give you a hint. Your property tax will increase so they can pay the tax increase. How could this possibly be neutral?

Ki-Som Victoria BC
Now that an election is going to happen, Mr. Dion, is now running around trying to make the "Green Plan" actually make sense. Before he gets eaten alive by the election on how stupid it really is.

Mikel
All I can think about with Dion and his Greenshift plan is an old flag with a snake on it stating "Hey Dion - Don't Tax on Me"

For those that want to know...most days I ride a bike to work, my wife and I use one car, and try our best to use as little energy heating and cooling our house as possible. Let me choose. I do not need to be taxed to figure out I need to help save old mother earth. Plus when was the last time you saw a Liberal actually use the taxes for what they are suppose to be for. They will just create another one of their famous arms length's foundations that do not have to answer to government. I believe that if you are really into this kind of thing than the NDP or Green Party are a much better choice.